tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post3152570253784798831..comments2023-10-23T21:42:24.657+03:00Comments on Off the Path and onto the Road: A Passover Discussion about Gay MarriageAmi Horowitzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-20517001424792836982012-06-05T22:16:06.901+03:002012-06-05T22:16:06.901+03:00thanks for sharing :)thanks for sharing :)Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-54378072936454692542012-06-05T18:47:40.081+03:002012-06-05T18:47:40.081+03:00Indeed... it was the same for me. This article was...Indeed... it was the same for me. This article was really excellent for all of us. <a href="http://www.dateats.com/" rel="nofollow">transgender dating site</a>hildahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16686973411388635832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-56093959402857676232012-04-17T05:08:16.273+03:002012-04-17T05:08:16.273+03:00>I guess you didnt understand my question
Yes ...>I guess you didnt understand my question<br /><br />Yes I did, and if you are implying that just as <em>cultural</em> differences account for differences between germans and australians therefore they too account for the differences between hardwiring of males and females in general, than I guess there is nothing else to say, but you are plain wrong.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-11598310916757666502012-04-17T03:56:12.998+03:002012-04-17T03:56:12.998+03:00I guess you didnt understand my question! Oh well...I guess you didnt understand my question! Oh well.....of course there are differences, just as there are differences between blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, indians, africans, the french, german, ppolish, norweigian, australian in the way they solve problems and the way they express love and their yearnings and and and and and .....are they hardwired the same?<br /><br />As far as your asshole comment, par for the course...take one to know one<br /><br />I''m brainwashed,....i love that one, thats my favorite dumb quote from you nowksilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623382090942812327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-34102621741555254652012-04-17T01:54:14.861+03:002012-04-17T01:54:14.861+03:00No of course not. My whole point is that it isn...No of course not. My whole point is that it isn't even discussed. I believe it is in Kidushin (I don't have the exact page) where it talks about treating a non Jewish man and woman that live together as if they are married. But at no time does is their any discussion that I am aware of about the recognition of a non Jewish marriage ceremony having any significance. You are claiming that halacha does go out of its way to recognize something. You need to give me a source.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-6545364989719598552012-04-17T01:50:49.400+03:002012-04-17T01:50:49.400+03:00Well, can't I ask you the same thing? What is ...Well, can't I ask you the same thing? What is the source that says Judaism does not recognize a marriage between two non-Jews? Not Kiddushin which is solely for Jews, but a regular marriage under their national rules.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-16732133291102093722012-04-17T01:31:56.247+03:002012-04-17T01:31:56.247+03:00The question is so fallacious. You really think ma...The question is so fallacious. You really think males and females think alike? Treat one another alike? Our core personalities and our make up is so different. Females are much more of the nurturers then males. The way we try to solve problems. The way we express our sexuality and yearnings are much different. Look at the way boys play together vs the way girls play together. It goes on. Your problem is the problem so many other OTD charadis have. They have been so brainwashed in their little insular existence, that anything that smacks of conservativism sets of knee jerk reaction to the other end of the liberal spectrum, without even seeing if there really is truth in the "old" claims.<br /><br />I think this is a great article showing the areas where feminism failed, basically in their acknowledgement of the differences between males and females and how that affects societies in the past and present. <br /><br />http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htmHoly Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-21265964716586201322012-04-17T01:23:26.433+03:002012-04-17T01:23:26.433+03:00Again, I would ask these Rabbis (and you) what is ...Again, I would ask these Rabbis (and you) what is the source? It makes no sense from anything I've ever learned and I can find no one, including religious friends of mine that understand what your rabbis are referring to.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-71037834094181762202012-04-16T22:50:49.169+03:002012-04-16T22:50:49.169+03:00tell me, oh great one who came back from being fru...tell me, oh great one who came back from being frum, then became not frum then back frum, which gives you SO much more credibility then any of us worthless dummies....what IS the difference between men and women, in that great mind of yours!?!??!ksilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623382090942812327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-74237225811626589182012-04-16T20:31:55.454+03:002012-04-16T20:31:55.454+03:00>Marriage in halacha is Kidushin, which non Jew...>Marriage in halacha is Kidushin, which non Jews don't have. <br /><br />The caveat there is that marriage between JEWS is kidushin. From what I have been told, halacha certainly recognizes other people existing and their cultures marrying them off. <br /><br />>Since you think it is only about opposite gender love than we are stuck.<br /><br />Yes we are.<br /><br />>And, I am curious what kind of job needs to know that kind of info about a person. Either way I hope you got the job<br /><br />Well, i prefer not to say at this moment, but tackles, I said I don't give a crap if someone is gay to what the job pertains.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-79223987732730440562012-04-16T20:29:05.550+03:002012-04-16T20:29:05.550+03:00worthless as usual ksil. At least you are consiste...worthless as usual ksil. At least you are consistent.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-61817046324318770122012-04-16T18:40:38.431+03:002012-04-16T18:40:38.431+03:00from HH, "there is no differnence between a m...from HH, "there is no differnence between a man vs a woman. It's all just penis/vagina. But there IS a difference between black vs white"<br /><br />oops, i mean...."there is no differnence between a white man vs a black man. It's all just skin color. But there IS a difference between male vs female"<br /><br />one of the dumbest things HH ever said, and that is saying something!<br /><br />LOLksilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623382090942812327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-33788164838078628622012-04-16T08:19:37.413+03:002012-04-16T08:19:37.413+03:00Than please ask your rabbis for the source. Where ...Than please ask your rabbis for the source. Where does halacha recognize non Jewish marriage? Marriage in halacha is Kidushin, which non Jews don't have. Im not saying we as Jews to not see them/treat/recognize non Jewss married. But where does halcaha recognize it?<br /><br />And if you follow my thought process through, since marriage is about love, than any 2 consenting adults that love each other should be allowed to be married. Since you think it is only about opposite gender love than we are stuck.<br />But there is no real reason for you to think that way. "Just because it has always been that way" is not a good answer. Many things chance. And in most cases things improve. <br /><br />And, I am curious what kind of job needs to know that kind of info about a person. Either way I hope you got the jobAmi Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-5995092523012558602012-04-12T08:31:30.443+03:002012-04-12T08:31:30.443+03:00>as...."thats what they do and its differe...>as...."thats what they do and its different " is just pure BS. <br /><br />huh?Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-76939446124450110612012-04-12T08:30:02.917+03:002012-04-12T08:30:02.917+03:00A) My rabbi is not trying to be PC. Let alone, the...A) My rabbi is not trying to be PC. Let alone, the logic behind your saying goyim can't get married (or us recognizing they can) does not seem to stand up. Perhaps you can say they have no CHIYUV, but how can you say they can't get married under their cultures and rules? <br /><br />B) Your equivalence of blacks to gays is just plain wrong for a very simple reason. Inter racial marriages have always existed. The laws that were created in colonial times and later in some states against it were the aberration to the norm, not the other way around. The fact that they passed a law to OUTLAW it, means it was done. This is the other way around, you are trying to legalized something that never existed. Whether you want it to change is one thing, but don't compare it to the history of inter racial marriage.<br /><br />c) The equivalence of blacks to gays is one of the reasons black community has shown anger toward the gay movement in trying to compare ACTUAL civil and moral infringements to what gays are going through with marriage. The fact of the matter is there is no differnence between a white man vs a black man. It's all just skin color. But there IS a difference between male vs female.....which is what marriage IS about. And here you have what I was talking to you Ami in the past about the left (in this case LGBT people) trying to little by little erase on distinctions between the male and female. To tell you the truth, this is where the battle ground is. Gay marriage is simply a symptom of this growing "hashkafa" from the left.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-39931940747487031462012-04-12T07:25:01.921+03:002012-04-12T07:25:01.921+03:00Thanks for chiming in Ksil. I dont know that HH...Thanks for chiming in Ksil. I dont know that HH's Rabbi is a bafoon, or just trying to be P.C.<br /><br />And of course I agree with your second point as well :)Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-6916623781229819212012-04-12T06:11:42.601+03:002012-04-12T06:11:42.601+03:00Ami, you are 100% right and hyrax dude is wrong. ...Ami, you are 100% right and hyrax dude is wrong. A great exmple is when a rav tries to find a heter for a mamzer, or anothe eishes ish problem, or gerushah to kohen, it is very common to declare that even though this person was "married" to another non jew, it is not considered marriage, therefore she is not an eishes ish or not a gerusha.<br /><br />HH, your rabbi is a bafoon. <br /><br />Further, to accept certain paramaters as HH does from other cultures as...."thats what they do and its different " is just pure BS. In this country of rmany years whites couldnt marry blacks.....therefore what? It was moral??? NO! So to here, we must stand and fight to allow gay marriage in our society, just as we fuaght for interratial marriage!ksilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623382090942812327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-53267928423810080302012-04-12T06:04:31.072+03:002012-04-12T06:04:31.072+03:00I saw that banner on the FDR, one of my favoritesI saw that banner on the FDR, one of my favoritesksilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623382090942812327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-41351615055154509112012-04-12T05:01:01.227+03:002012-04-12T05:01:01.227+03:00What does it mean Noach was married? Married in Ju...What does it mean Noach was married? Married in Judaism mean kiddushin. There must be something similar for now Jews? Some sort of rules. But there is none. And just saying the law includes adultery is not enough. I need sources. Again, as I have learned, halcha says "As if they are married" and not that they are married. Sources please. <br /><br />And yes, the halacha is the same about Jews needing a get after living together is because people will assume that they slept together, which is a form of kiddushin in the right situation. None Jews do not have kiddushin and therefore this is not similar.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-16634132300768467962012-04-12T04:54:49.097+03:002012-04-12T04:54:49.097+03:00I am sorry my comment was not clear and full of ty...I am sorry my comment was not clear and full of typos. I mean, they should be allowed to file to jointly.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-72196359644244892662012-04-12T04:28:59.521+03:002012-04-12T04:28:59.521+03:00>>> I can think of no good reason why the...>>> I can think of no good reason why they should be allowed to follow jointly.<br /><br />i think you meant file jointly. because you demand fairness and fairnss should include any 2 people wishing to be married.david a.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12394358328154167719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-82903364314250014182012-04-12T01:58:32.459+03:002012-04-12T01:58:32.459+03:00>Based on what? What are his sources? What does...>Based on what? What are his sources? What does it mean they are married?<br /><br />What does that mean they are NOT married? If Noach was married, how would they understand non-Jews NOT getting married? And from my understanding of what he told me, sexual immorality is not just against beastiality or homosexuality or incest but any of what the Torah considers sexual immorality....one of them being adultery. <br /><br />>Again the gemara says we treat a man and woman that are not Jewish that live together as if they are married.<br /><br />I have also heard the same about Jews. If two Jews are living for a long time together, the woman needs a get since they would be for all practical matters married.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-91449110039443637382012-04-12T00:36:57.865+03:002012-04-12T00:36:57.865+03:00Further, there would have to be rules about such m...Further, there would have to be rules about such marriages, or reference to divorce in such marriages. Again the gemara says we treat a man and woman that are not Jewish that live together as if they are married. And should one move away, than as if they are divorced. But more than that I am not aware (and apparently many other orthodox/formerly orthodox Jews) any source.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-31678549459268485922012-04-12T00:35:15.096+03:002012-04-12T00:35:15.096+03:00Based on what? What are his sources? What does it ...Based on what? What are his sources? What does it mean they are married? It really makes no sense. The only thing I can think of that might sorta make his point is that their is a halacha to except the laws of the land that you live in. But in that case if you live somewhere with gay marriage, than you would have to accept that and no orthodox rabbi would agree to that. so that cannot be his source.<br />So I need more information than "the rabbi said so". As you can also tell from the comments here, I am hardly the only one to know this about halacha. I always thought it was common knowledge.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-7205545047090216542012-04-11T23:06:55.026+03:002012-04-11T23:06:55.026+03:00What I wrote is that we treat them as if they are ...What I wrote is that we treat them as if they are married but do not consider them married. And the nochide law he talks about is about sexual immorality. It says nothing about adultery. Some modern rabbis might extend it to that, but it makes little sense to see it as a "law against adultery". <br />Are non Jews permitted to marry more than one woman according to the 7 laws? Doesn't say. If it was a law about marriage and adultery don't you think that at least that would be specified (considering Jews technically can marry more than one woman). <br /><br />They teach first graders that the law is against adultery so they dont have to explain to kids about bestiality and rape and the such. Your Rabbi gave you a simplified and convenient answer.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.com