tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post7715708454488966056..comments2023-10-23T21:42:24.657+03:00Comments on Off the Path and onto the Road: The Nonsensical "Values" of ConservatismAmi Horowitzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-63087786654573512952012-05-24T10:41:19.164+03:002012-05-24T10:41:19.164+03:00It doesn't but I do understand the assumption....It doesn't but I do understand the assumption. But now that I think about it more, a number of times in the Torah the wives specifically did not not change their religion. The first example that comes to mind is the man non Jewish wives of King Solomon.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-34060366169293061552012-05-24T05:25:54.709+03:002012-05-24T05:25:54.709+03:00Where does it say the women took the religion of t...Where does it say the women took the religion of the husband?ksilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10623382090942812327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-56075798863780790032012-05-23T02:32:52.554+03:002012-05-23T02:32:52.554+03:00Not true. Whenever the Torah talks about the linea...Not true. Whenever the Torah talks about the lineage of anyone, they only refer to the men because apparently that is all that matters. To be a proper king, a person needed to be a decedent of David, not Bat-Sheva.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-48764923154462174382012-05-23T02:30:09.385+03:002012-05-23T02:30:09.385+03:00Well the Torah doesn't say anything explicitly...Well the Torah doesn't say anything explicitly. It just gives a narrative. The women simply took the religion of their husbands....before a child was born<br /><br />The only thing it does allude to explicitly, is the issue with the slave, which does not work in your favor :)Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-53894467552208239422012-05-23T02:15:58.042+03:002012-05-23T02:15:58.042+03:00I am just saying what the Torah says. If you want ...I am just saying what the Torah says. If you want to claim that the Jews of that period actually did not practice that way, than that is fine. But that still does not change what the Torah says.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-66555431239094788022012-05-23T02:14:17.462+03:002012-05-23T02:14:17.462+03:00No you have not. And it was not my intention to de...No you have not. And it was not my intention to demonize. As I said, most people I know in the world are conservative. My parents are conservative. <br />I do not want to get into a debate on gay marriage right now. This is not the post to do that (I think my next one will be better suited for that). <br />My point is, adapting to the changing world, rather than fighting the change is sometimes worth considering.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-54118310815175855192012-05-23T02:12:24.256+03:002012-05-23T02:12:24.256+03:00>At one point Judaism was determined by the fat...>At one point Judaism was determined by the father and later it switched to the mother.<br /><br />I know that is your point. I don't think it is so clear cut given the reality of that day and age for the two points I brought up.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-36904759055152378692012-05-23T02:11:22.932+03:002012-05-23T02:11:22.932+03:00Actually most of my friends are conservative. I wa...Actually most of my friends are conservative. I was conservative when I was younger, mimicking my parents.<br />I really do not know why. The guess of "a feeling of power" was really just throwing a dart blindly and hoping to hit the target. <br />I have no idea why. I think in many cases it has to do with hate, but I am not simplistic enough to think that is the main cause.<br />So please enlighten me if you have a better answer.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-84308122284908577172012-05-23T02:10:42.903+03:002012-05-23T02:10:42.903+03:00>denying me what what I deserve when it has no ...>denying me what what I deserve when it has no effect on them whatsoever.<br /><br />For better or worse, everything has an affect on society even though at a particular point, it may not affect a given individual. We don't each live on individual islands. Conservatives care about the long run health of a society no less than you do. So give them a little more benefit of the doubt than to demonize their intentions. You may not agree with them, but I don't think I have ever demonized you.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-2370896364192319492012-05-23T02:08:43.734+03:002012-05-23T02:08:43.734+03:00That is the point, the men had non Jewish wives an...That is the point, the men had non Jewish wives and Ezra tried to put a stop to it. But it would appear he did not succeed since later rabbis felt a need to make this change again. <br />Honestly, it has been a number of years since I read up on this and I will have to look into it more.<br />But this does not change the point I wrote about. At one point Judaism was determined by the father and later it switched to the mother.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-59506781286825886622012-05-23T02:07:12.575+03:002012-05-23T02:07:12.575+03:00Really, you think your average Conservative gets s...Really, you think your average Conservative gets some High with power? <br /><br />How many Conservatives are you actually close with....that are not orthodox Jews?Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-49658650836603303232012-05-23T02:05:43.430+03:002012-05-23T02:05:43.430+03:00And in Ezra's time...when he told them to sepa...And in Ezra's time...when he told them to separate from their foreign wives....was at it paternal?Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-59269153540370260892012-05-23T02:03:24.724+03:002012-05-23T02:03:24.724+03:00Honestly, I have no idea. A feeling of power? That...Honestly, I have no idea. A feeling of power? That is just a guess. I really cannot figure out what someone gains by trying to force me to live a life that I do not want or denying me what what I deserve when it has no effect on them whatsoever.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-6855927831291258512012-05-23T02:01:59.693+03:002012-05-23T02:01:59.693+03:00Thousands, should be over a thousand. My mistake.
...Thousands, should be over a thousand. My mistake.<br /><br />As far as change, I believe most change that frees up the individual to live his/her life in happiness is always good, as long as that individual is not hurting anyone else.<br /><br />Other than that not all change is good and every change needs to be judged based on its own merits. My point was that the current conservative trend is to be reactionary and anti all forms of change.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-56275340687532884122012-05-23T01:59:33.475+03:002012-05-23T01:59:33.475+03:00It is certain as the rabbis of the Roman period fe...It is certain as the rabbis of the Roman period felt a need to change it to the mother.Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-83227618299636624642012-05-23T01:44:57.845+03:002012-05-23T01:44:57.845+03:00>What do conservatives gain by telling people n...>What do conservatives gain by telling people no? <br /><br />What do YOU think I gain?Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-68956926558341235372012-05-23T01:42:53.619+03:002012-05-23T01:42:53.619+03:00>For thousands of years Judaism revolved around...>For thousands of years Judaism revolved around the Temple in Jerusalem.<br /><br />For thousands?????<br /><br /><br />>marriage has always been between one man and one woman <br /><br />That isn't what they say.<br /><br />They say marriage has always been about man and woman. <br /><br />And I disagree with your post. Obvious some change is good, while some change is bad. Progressives see all change is good, typically based on feelings of empathy, compassion (or feelings of entitlement). Conservatives would say that not every change in the long run is good even though to the individuals, it seems compassionate. A good society finds that balance between liberal attitudes of changes where things absolutely needs change and conservative values to anchor it down.<br /><br />IIRC, there is a fascinated TED lecture on this topic where the lecturer sees a sort of ring/yang existence. WHere Liberalism functions as the destroyer to tear at what needs to be torn for good change and conservatives operates at holding everything together and conserving that which needs to be. Both are needed.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-36678946872235732972012-05-23T01:31:19.709+03:002012-05-23T01:31:19.709+03:00>According to the Torah, the Jewishness of a ch...>According to the Torah, the Jewishness of a child is determined by the father<br /><br />That isn't so certain<br /><br />1) In ancient days, women would automatically take the religion of their husband.<br />2) There is a law regarding giving a Jewish slave a non-Jewish slave to marry. Yet any offspring stays with the master when the Jew is released. If the child was Jewish according to the father, he would have to be set free.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-20853911976139784232012-05-22T10:10:02.522+03:002012-05-22T10:10:02.522+03:00hugs gablong :)hugs gablong :)Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-43681271651906764572012-05-22T09:56:51.824+03:002012-05-22T09:56:51.824+03:00@SJ http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare@SJ http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youaregablonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629188766887670872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-91411413542522212262012-05-22T09:39:11.221+03:002012-05-22T09:39:11.221+03:00I wrote about the "conservative mind set"...I wrote about the "conservative mind set" not everything Americans label as conservative that actually have nothing to do with the word conservatism. It is not my fault Americans use the word for a catch all.<br /><br />For example, laissez faire economic policy in America is called conservatism just because the Republics take that position. It actually has nothing to do with conservatism. <br />The words conservatism comes from the world conserve. The conservative mindset fights any kind of change, be it in religion or politics. <br /><br />I could have gone into a whole history of where and why this mind set started (post Napoleon Europe, specifically Austria), but that would have made a boring post for most of my readers.<br /><br />As far as your narrow minded, uninformed, dumb view on marriage, its baseless.<br /><br />Do you know how to make a point or do you just curse and throw a temper tantrum?Ami Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08077675329242686759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3026335646496333980.post-52931964505719440672012-05-22T05:28:18.317+03:002012-05-22T05:28:18.317+03:00It seems to me that you conflate being a political...It seems to me that you conflate being a political conservative in terms of U.S. politics with orthodox-judaism specific issues and then blast off about what you think is American conservatism.<br /><br />In other words you sound like a fuckin MORON.<br /><br />Now as for gay marriage, marriage is a man reserving a woman for himself for sexual purposes. It makes absolutely no sense for men to reserve other men or for women to reserve other women.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10704885840004960450noreply@blogger.com