Sunday, May 13, 2012

GOProud, Orthodox Gays and Other "Queer" Combinations

Controversial gay activist Dan Savage was recently asked to apologize for comments he made about the Bible. His exact words were "We can learn to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about gay people, the same way we have learned to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation". The main group demanding this apology, is a group called GOProud, the "gay wing" of the Republican party. While I appreciate that members of GOProud are homosexuals that tend to be fiscally conservative and prefer small government (2 opinions I personally agree with), I cannot understand their social conservatism. How can they defend the evil the Bible says about homosexuals and at the same time call themselves proud gays? 

Even more so, I do not understand how this group can endorse a a candidate for the presidency that wants to write into the US constitution an amendment that is anti gay marriage. I understand party politics. I understand that members of this group can be gay and still religious and therefore don't want their churches and religious institutions to have to change. However, I cannot understand how this group can abandon their fellow human beings that are fighting for what they feel to be their civil rights. I can't understand how they can endorse the homophobia of the Bible and yet claim to be proud?

Similarly, there is a growing trend in Israel of openly gay, orthodox Jews. These men wear kippot, women that dress according to Jewish conservative standards, keep Jewish dietary laws, as well as the Jewish Sabbath and have openly homosexual relationships and march in gay pride parades. Again, this is a group of people that accept the homophobia of the Torah to be the word of the one true "god", but at the same time are proud of their homosexuality? 

While talking about a group of openly gay Catholics in the episode of "Bullshit" dealing with the Vatican, Penn Jillette says, "A gay Catholic seems like a Jewish Nazi to us". While Orthodox Judaism is a little less harsh than the Catholic Church in regards to their view of homosexuals, I have to admit that I find the combination to be somewhat ridiculous and to a large extent self hatting. How can someone claim to both be proud of who they are, including their homosexuality and at the same time believe that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscience god condemns and hates homosexuality? 

Obviously I agree with Savage and Penn when they dismiss the bible as "bullshit" (their word choice, not mine). How can a book so full of hate and evil be true? But there are these groups that have somehow reconciled their gay pride and their belief in this book and I simply cannot understand how they do it. I am a huge proponent and individual rights and freedoms. I am the last person that will tell these people that they have to change their views or anything like that. But I am genuinely curious about how they mix these contradictions in their lives. I would love to ask any of my readers that have any insight on the subject to please comment on this post. Are these groups delusional or is there something that I am missing?


  1. The world, gay or straight, is a horrible, evil, disgusting place. Calling the bible more evil than your average stupid, murderous, jealous, deceitful, ultra competitive rat-human might seem like it makes sense to you, but I can see how to some people the line is more blurry. Believing in the bible and being gay is probably the same as believing in not taking advantage of those weaker than you and being human. An extreme view, yes, but not an unreasonable one logically.

    1. I hear the logic and sadly I agree that the world can be a horribly evil place. However, as we have discussed many times (and I know you do not agree) I find that evil that is supposedly "heavenly" ordered/permitted/encouraged is significantly more threatening and in many cases more extreme than any other kind of evil. How can someone claim to love the "all knowing, all powerful creator" that supposedly condemns them to death?

  2. Instead of asking your readers, why not just reach out to these organizations (through email perhaps) and ask them yourself. Maybe you can even got someone to guest post.

    I may be wrong, but isn't this guy gay and frum?

  3. saw a great today today "you're not born with homophobia, your pastor gave it to you"

  4. meant to say, "saw a great TWEET today"

    pervert....are you referring to the rabbis who are obssessed with their holy followers watching porn? or the rabbis that molest? or the priests that force anal sex on young boys? or the sick obssession orthodox rabbis have with how women dress and the unhealthy and unatrual seperation of the sexes?

    oh...yes. makes total sense.

    otherwise, not sure why calling someone you dont know a "pervert" helps your cause, projecting? reading your blog, it would appear so (LOL)

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